CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs’ historic 16-game win streak, and how they stifled the Grizzlies’ potent offense.

Takeaways:

• The Cavs have set a franchise record with a 16-game win streak.
• Donovan Mitchell is dealing with a minor groin injury and the team is being cautious.
• The Cavs’ depth allows them to rest key players without losing momentum.
• Evan Mobley’s is the frontrunner for Defensive Player of the Year.
• The Cavs are experimenting with different defensive strategies, including zone defense.
• The team is focused on being in the best shape mentally and physically for the playoffs, not just winning games.
• The Cavs’ magic number to clinch the top spot in the East is eight.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me from the beautiful city of Memphis, Chris Fedor. And of course, we are coming to you guys after the Cavs 16th win in a row, 133-124 over the Memphis Grizzlies. And we understand.

that history was made once again. Another franchise record for the Cleveland Cavaliers when it comes to win streak. And Chris also a little bit added history when it comes to this. The Cavs came in as just the sixth team in NBA history to have two 15 game or more winning streaks along with the 1946-47 Washington Capitals.

1970, 1971 Milwaukee Bucks, 1996, 1997 Utah Jazz, 1999, 2000 Los Angeles Lakers, and the 2006, 2007 Phoenix Suns. The one little wrinkle to this is that there’s only two teams from this list, now three, that were able to do this and break a franchise record more than once of this six teams.

That ended up being the 1970, 1971 bucks and the 2006, 2007 Phoenix Suns. And then you also throw in the Cleveland Cavaliers this season. It’s been a historic year, Chris, we understand it. What were the vibes like in the locker room after tonight’s game? What did you hear? And I mean, I have to ask this. Did anybody care?

Chris (01:51.319)

No, just ho-hum. Ho-hum. Another thing that they accomplished along the way to what they hope is an extended spring carries into the summer. Just another step in terms of what they have to do in order to be the team that they want to be. Tonight it was about playing with a level of focus and physicality and intensity from the very beginning, going on the road, playing against Memphis. Memphis had won four games.

In a row, the Cavs had multiple days off, where they spent that time in Nashville together as a team. So, it’s kind of like to a point where every game is like a game within the game. It’s a challenge to themselves of trying to accomplish a certain kind of thing. And all of the things that Kenny Atkinson stressed at shoot around earlier this morning.

The Cavs went out and they did them from the outset despite the fact that Donovan Mitchell was back in Cleveland watching and rehabbing a groin injury. So it just tells you again, it’s just a reminder again of how complete this team is, how connected this team is, how much fun they have both on and off the floor, but also how when it’s time, you know, if they’re able to focus and they’re able to take a business like approach that

you know, is required of a championship level team.

Ethan Sands (03:22.05)

Chris, let’s start there. Donovan Mitchell is back in Cleveland. Obviously we didn’t see him in any of the videos of the Cavs playing football at Vanderbilt or in the practice videos from this past week. So we had a feeling that he wasn’t there and wasn’t going to play in the game against Memphis on Friday. But what are you hearing about the groin injury? How significant is it? Is he, is the Cavs as we have known all season, just being cautious, what’s the situation with Donovan?

Chris (03:51.337)

Everything that I understand is that it’s a minor issue that Donovan is dealing with And they’re going to continue to be cautious with it Because they have no reason not to be if you remember last year Ethan there was a stretch where Donovan was dealing with an achy knee and He felt like he needed to get back out there Because the team wasn’t playing well because they were chasing wins Because they were playing for playoff positioning

And they just weren’t this kind of team that could withstand his loss. and he will admit now that he came back from that injury sooner than he should have, but he felt like he had to. He doesn’t feel like he has to with this team. Donovan Mitchell is out. Darius Garland didn’t even play well tonight from an efficiency standpoint. He controlled the game. He controlled the pace. He got them organized offensively.

but it was another substandard performance from Darius. But Evan Mobley was great. Jared Allen brought the physicality from the very beginning. Deandre Hunter was awesome coming off the bench despite the fact that he was dealing with foul trouble. Sam Merrill was stroking the basketball. So it’s just a situation where the Cavs believe and Donovan believes that he can take some time off and he can be cautious when it comes to this.

And there’s no reason for him to rush. They’ve got a huge cushion for first place in the Eastern Conference. They’ve got a ton of depth that they can rely on on a nightly basis. And they’ve got their longest road trip coming up this week that is going to start Tuesday against the Clippers. So while he has an opportunity to get this extended period of rehab, treatment, recovery, rest, he’s going to take advantage of it.

And the Cavs are going to take advantage of it. And these are the kinds of things that they’re able to do, because they’re not in a situation where they’re chasing wins. They’re not in a situation where they’re chasing a certain kind of seed. They have played a consistent level of basketball all season long, no matter who’s been out there. And now it’s about, it’s not about March. It’s not about the one seed necessarily. It’s about being in the best possible.

Chris (06:15.635)

physical and mental shape that they can be in going into the playoffs and if that means Donovan doesn’t play Sunday in a national TV game against the Orlando Magic because he feels like it’s better for him and the Cavs feel like it’s better for them to have him miss another game then so be it. That’s what they’re going to do.

Ethan Sands (06:37.718)

And Chris, think that has been illustrated throughout the entire season. And we’ve talked about it like Donovan, Darius, Evan, not necessarily Jared Allen, because he wants to play in all 82 game seasons or all 82 games this season. But those three of the four core four members could see a good chunk of DNP rest sporadically spread out over the remainder of the season.

I mean, we saw it the other day. We’ve talked about it when Caris LaVert was on this team that he could be in that category as well. I’m not necessarily sure that I would have put Ty Jerome in that category, but he got a DNP rest from the other nights. And it shows that even when, even if you’re not a big name player on this team, even though I think you could argue that Ty Jerome has been one of the most crucial pieces to this team, that even if you have

any inkling of needing a day off. This Cavs team is in the right positioning to give you that and they’re avoiding any repercussions from the NBA as we’ve seen from other teams being getting fined by just being upfront with it. There’s no injury here. They’re just resting and we only have one guy out because of that. So I think that’s a big portion of it. But I do think when it comes to this game against the Grizzlies and obviously Chris,

We don’t have to talk a whole lot about this game because it is a nothing game outside of the fact that Jaren Jackson Jr. returned. John Morant had 40 points and this is the second seeded team in the Western Conference and yet the Cavs still, how do I put this? Let’s just say the acronym, BTA, Belt 2, fill in the blank when it comes to the regular starter units and the rotations because

Chris (08:24.161)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ethan Sands (08:31.522)

This Cavs team, and we talked about it with the Boston Celtics in Loom, 53s, Chris. 19 made threes. Four different guys made three or more threes tonight for the Cavs, including their seven footer, Evan Mobley. And he had a three pointer taken away from him, I might add. So I think it’s important to note just how offensively savvy this team has been.

Chris (08:39.882)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (08:59.608)

But I don’t think that was the biggest portion of tonight’s game, Chris. Obviously, we know that Evan Mobley’s offensive growth has been huge, but the Cavs’ defense in their zone frustrated the Memphis Grizzlies mightily, and although it might not have worked against John Moran in stopping him from getting into the painted area, it frazzled almost everybody else. What did you see when it came to that zone?

Chris (09:27.433)

It’s just about giving teams different looks and it’s just about the Cavs gaining an understanding and gaining confidence of going to these different looks throughout the course of games. Whenever Kenny calls them out or Jordan Ock calls them out or Johnny Bryant or Mike Garrity, whoever it is that’s calling them out the loudest from the sidelines. It’s just, they’re all on the same page, right? They all believe in the scheme.

They all understand what they’re supposed to do within the scheme. They understand what the points of emphasis are within that scheme. It’s just, you have to play so many different styles when you get into the playoffs, both offensively and defensively. You have to be able to mix and match. You have to be able to vary the looks. And some series are going to call for the Cavs going to more zone. And they understand that. And this is preparation for that.

So much of what they’re going to do here in March is about how do we best prepare ourselves for the playoffs? End of game situations. What do we go to when? What lineups do we go to when? What combinations do we go to and when? You know, there was a point in the fourth quarter tonight, Ethan, where De’Andre Hunter picked up his fifth fall. And one of the Cavs assistants who is partially responsible

for the rotations, the minute allocations and all that kind of stuff. He has the piece of paper right in front of him. He walked towards center court and he walked to Kenny and he said, DG or Max? And Kenny just paused. He looked out there on the floor. He looked at who Memphis had out there. He looked at the scoreboard. He looked at who was out there with the Cavs and he said, give me Givante.

So, I mean, that just shows the kind of tactician that Kenny Atkinson is, that he is in control every second of every single game. And when something is working like the zone, he’s going to continue to go to it. They ran three different variations of their zone tonight. They went 2-3, they went 3-2 with Dean out front, and then they went box and one with Sam Merrill just running around the whole time with Luke Kinnard.

Chris (11:49.047)

because they just didn’t want to let Luke Conard get free. But those are the kinds of things that Kenny is willing to do throughout the course of the regular season so that the Cavs can have it in their back pocket when the playoffs roll around. Maybe there’s a specific matchup where he wants to go box and one. I don’t know which team that would be against. Maybe it would be against Milwaukee, against Dane, something like that.

But it’s just building confidence and building a trust in every style that they’re probably going to have to play in the playoffs. yes, part of it tonight against Memphis was Jal likes to take the ball off the dribble. They like to run pick and roll stuff. He likes to get downhill. Can we find a way to just kind of take a Memphis offense that is one of the best in the NBA?

out of rhythm and make them hesitate when it comes to how they’re going to attack a specific one.

Ethan Sands (12:52.334)

100%. And I think you look at the numbers and obviously the numbers don’t always tell the story, but I like Kenny Atkinson sticking Sam Merrill on Luke Kennard as a shooter on shooter matchup. And obviously we also understand that Sam Merrill has upped his defensive presence and defensive respect when it comes to Kenny Atkinson and this coaching staff and what they expect from Sam. And I think

When you talk about a complete ball game from Sam Merrill, I think this is one of his best. It might not stick out in the plus minus department. He was a plus 13, but he stroked, as Chris was saying, four triples. He had the most threes of tonight’s game. was four of five. Annie held Luke Canard, the other team’s start shooter, to O of five from the field, O of four from deep. Not necessarily saying those were all with Sam Merrill in the box and one, but.

those were also contests of having the boxing one, the defense that the Cavs were doing. And I had one of the media personalities and media personnel that covers some of his Grizzlies reach out to me mid game and go, this zone is killing them. And I was just like, he was like, how often do they do this? Is this something that the Cavs could use against the Grizzlies if they see each other in the playoffs? And I was like, a hundred percent.

especially if the Grizzlies aren’t going to shoot the three-pointer the way that they are capable of or if Luke Kennard is held to the same caliber that he was tonight.

Chris (14:25.053)

You should have just responded saying you don’t have to worry about it Memphis isn’t getting to the finals No chance their big man can’t rebound They can’t consistently execute in the half court so you can respond now say by the way You don’t have to worry about this matchup in the NBA finals because Memphis isn’t getting there No chance no chance not against Oklahoma City

Ethan Sands (14:29.806)

I like to be a little respectful. Not, no.

Ethan Sands (14:49.838)

I think that’s fair. I agree. I agree.

Chris (14:54.421)

Not against the Lakers with Luca and LeBron. Probably not against Denver. No, no, no, no, no, no. But that’s not taking anything away from Memphis. They are legitimately one of the better teams in the Western Conference. And for the Cavs to have this kind of performance on the road against that team that had won four games in a row, that was playing with Jaron Jackson for the first time in nearly two weeks, and with Donovan Mitchell back home.

and with Darius Garland having a substandard performance, it’s just, it’s another reminder of how damn difficult it is to beat the Cavs. The margin for error is so minuscule when playing against this team. I mean, think about it, Ethan. You Memphis opens up the fourth quarter on a 9-2 run. They put energy back in the arena. They forced the Cavs to call timeout.

They cut the Cavs lead to 13 or 14 at that point in time. And then on the first Cavs possession, they missed the shot, get an offensive rebound, missed that shot, get an offensive rebound, and then make the three that fuels an 8-2 run of their own. You can’t allow those things, you can’t allow the Cavs to have three looks on one possession. In one of the most meaningful moments of the game,

Memphis wasn’t able to do the littlest thing, which was finish the defensive possession with a rebound. And if they do finish that possession, who knows? Who knows how the rest of the game plays out? But that one mistake, that one mistake within that one possession changed the game from fans are into it, Memphis making a run, maybe cut it to single digits in a few possessions to, Cavs back up 20.

It happens that fast with this team. And there are very few teams that, you know, can bring it to a consistent level for 48 minutes against these guys. And it’s so damn difficult to beat them.

Ethan Sands (17:06.222)

Chris, it always feels like in the Cavs lead for a majority of this game and you talk about a team that is able and care. Sorry, the Cavs led for all but 49 seconds of this game. Let me make that extremely clear. So this Cavs team has shown that it can come back from being in deficits, it can keep a lead, all these different things. The only time the game really got close was in the.

Chris (17:19.36)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (17:33.472)

end of the fourth quarter when the entire bench was in and Kenny Atkinson said after the game, if he had the nitpick, they don’t want to have those guys be a minus 11th, right? And I think that’s like the smallest aspect we’re looking at because in reality, when the playoffs come around, majority of those guys are not getting minutes or if they are, it’s in a very, very small role. But Chris, I want to get again to the biggest storyline of

Chris (17:43.447)

Red.

Ethan Sands (18:03.32)

today’s game and Chris I feel like you you saw this coming but Evan Mobley’s defensive player of the year. It’s basically you can put his name on the trophy you can damn near ship it like Jaren Jackson Jr. coming back from his injury if this is what he’s gonna play like and I think I don’t remember if it was you or Jimmy that brought this point up but he fouls way too much.

to be a defensive player of the year in this era of the game. When a guy like Evan Mobley, who has not found himself in foul trouble a majority of the season is just simply dominating on that end of the floor. mean, tonight it was another performance that we can have come accustomed to from Evan Mobley. Two blocks of steel, 11 rebounds, two offensive boards, while Jaren Jackson Jr.

is over here with two blocks, four steals, but he also almost fouled out with five, right? And he still was a minus 21 in the contest while Evan Mobley was a plus 16. So there’s different levels. Obviously you can. And this is where I think it gets hazy is if people are just looking at the stats, they’re like, oh, Jaren Jackson, Jr. And I feel like we said this on the last podcast when we talked about Memphis and the Cavs and Evan Mobley and Jaren Jackson, Jr.

Chris (19:06.528)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (19:30.702)

It’s like, Jaren Jackson Jr. had a better game statistically. Well, if you watched the basketball game, then you understand that anytime Jaren Jackson Jr. saw Evan Mobley in the paint, he was like, OK, let me either think twice, look around, make sure nobody else is is open or whatever and take this ugly shot to try and help my case. And then when it was Evan Mobley on the offensive end, he said, Jaren Jackson Jr. is in front of me.

Chris (19:34.593)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (20:00.984)

FOOD! I enjoy this. I want to go into your chest and show you that you’re not a better player than me. And my favorite part of tonight, of the entire game, Evan Mobley talking smack. I saw this on the broadcast and I said, no, if they have poked and awaken the quiet sleeping giant that is Evan Mobley, this league is in so much trouble.

Chris (20:02.582)

Yeah.

Chris (20:30.603)

I think the first thing that we have to point out here is that Evna has not met the threshold to this point in time. I don’t think we can assume that he is going to because Wemby was going to be the defensive player of the year until he was lost for the year. know, Jaylen Brunson may not, we’ll see what happens, but his injury may prove costly for him and his chances at end of season awards.

And LeBron’s recent injury may wreck his chances at end of season awards, depending on how long it lasts. So that is the variable that seems to be preventing like a lot of these guys from either making first team all NBA, second team all NBA, whatever the case may be. So he still needs to play seven more games.

If he does play seven more games, if he does meet that threshold and he can stay healthy the rest of the way, I don’t even think Ethan… I don’t even think the debate’s gonna be Evan versus Jaren Jackson Jr. I don’t. Like, I think Evan has that one.

Ethan Sands (21:41.037)

Dyson? Are you going Dyson?

Chris (21:43.903)

I don’t know if it’s Dyson Daniels either. think voters are going to try and find a Thunder player.

Ethan Sands (21:50.392)

Hello.

Chris (21:51.733)

And I don’t know if they’re going to be able to, don’t know which one they’re going to determine is the most meaningful, but they are so far and away better than everybody else on the defensive end of the floor. The gap between OKC defensively and every other team in the NBA is so significant that as a voter, you’re almost looking at it saying, I got to reward somebody.

Like this is the best defense that I’ve seen in maybe a decade. Like how do I not give it to Lou Dort who shuts down everybody when he takes that matchup or at least stifles guys? so like, I do think voters are going to have a hard time picking out which one. is it Lou Dort? Is it Isaiah Hartenstein who has really good advanced metrics? Is it Shay?

who has really good advanced metrics and one of the league leaders in steals and takes some really difficult matchups. Jalen Williams is really good defensively too. So I think it may be hard to pinpoint which one, but I do think there is going to be a segment of the voting media that says, should I reward a Thunder player? But I think when it comes to Jaren Jackson Jr. and Evan,

I think as long as Evan continues to play at the level that he’s played at defensively, there’s no reason to think that he won’t. As long as he continues to have the impact for this team defensively on a nightly basis, there’s no reason to think that he won’t. As long as he meets the 65 game threshold and stays healthy, I I don’t think there’s a strong enough case to be made for Jaren Jackson Jr. over Evan.

You know, it would be one thing. I mean, it would be one thing if Memphis had a better defense than the Cavs. but like by the end of this season, I think the Cavs are probably going to be higher than Memphis in the defensive rankings. And I think the impact metrics that a lot of voters seem to value more,

Ethan Sands (23:47.564)

And I agree.

Chris (24:12.841)

as they get smarter and as they talk to more people around the NBA. And as they understand that a lot of NBA teams are using these impact metrics, very few of them by the end of the season, I think are going to be favorable for Jaren Jackson Jr. To even make the case over somebody like Evan Mobley.

Ethan Sands (24:33.353)

So a couple things on this. agree with you that during the

Chris (24:37.099)

Dyson’s interesting too, by the way. I do think Dyson’s interesting because we’ve just never seen steals to this level.

Ethan Sands (24:45.55)

Yeah, he’s playing to a completely different level when it comes to the steel factor. I do want to point out a couple of things. One, I think you said seven, and then Mowgli needs just six games because tonight was 59. Six games to meet the 65 game. And also in that same breath, Isaiah Hardenstein is not going to make the 65 game threshold because he’s played in 45.

Chris (24:58.719)

Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, yeah.

Chris (25:10.823)

No, I know he’s not eligible, but I’m just saying, like, generally speaking, when you’re having a hypothetical conversation with yourself about the most impactful OKC guy, like, who do you think of first sort of thing?

Ethan Sands (25:25.932)

Okay, I just wanted to make that clear for anybody that was like, Isaiah Heinenstein might might sound kind of interesting my other My other thing with that is I don’t think Voters would give Shay MVP and defensive player of the year in the same year I don’t I would have to Good. I don’t know

Chris (25:28.63)

No.

Chris (25:31.966)

No, no, no,

Chris (25:46.187)

He’s, he’s number one in, he’s number one in defensive wind shares. He’s top five in defensive box plus minus. he is top five in defensive rating. he is 97th percentile in defense of estimated plus minus. And he’s one of the league leaders in steals and deflections.

Like I don’t think it’s crazy for people to look at Shae that kind of way. You might be right about are we going to give him MVP and defensive player of the year? Let’s just give him MVP sort of thing.

But his case for Defensive Player of the Year is pretty damn strong. And for him to put up these kinds of defensive metrics that he has while carrying the responsibility that he has on the offensive end of the floor is almost unprecedented.

Ethan Sands (26:53.824)

If I’m not mistaken, there are only three players in NBA history who have won the Defensive Player of the Year and Most Valuable Player of the Year awards in the same season. Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Yana Santadokunpo, if I’m not mistaken that Yana said it in 2019-2020. So… Is… Like, that’s a historic list. That’s a crazy list.

Chris (27:06.369)

Yeah.

Chris (27:19.957)

Later.

Ethan Sands (27:23.564)

And I’m not saying you have the stats to back it up. You have the stats to back it up. I am not saying that he is far and away out of this conversation. I’m saying that we’ve talked about this, voters again, taking votes from other people. Like if you put Lugenzi Thorpe and Anshe in this conversation, are they taking votes from each other? Right? Evan Mobley is far and away the best defensive player of the year candidate on the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Chris (27:23.767)

I mean, the other thing that Shay might run into, yeah.

Chris (27:39.391)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (27:45.418)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (27:53.164)

Right? Then you got Dyson Daniels in this conversation.

Chris (27:56.407)

I mean, Jared Allen has a case.

Ethan Sands (27:59.742)

All right. We’re not talking about stats, Chris. Right now. Right now.

Chris (28:05.655)

His defensive impact metrics are very similar to Evan Mobley. They are. I mean, he’s higher in defensive wind shares. He’s very close in defensive box plus minus. I’m not saying that I think Jared is more important to the success of the Cavs defense. But I do think in the past, voters have tried to answer the whole who’s more important question.

And if they start to ask themselves that question again, and they dig into the numbers, like Jared’s very, very close to Evan. So I don’t think we can just completely dismiss him when he’s higher in defensive writing, when he’s higher in defensive wind shares, when like I said, he’s very, very close in defensive box plus minus. I think his D LeBron is very, very close with Evan as well.

I would vote for Evan at this point in time. There’s still a month remaining in the regular season, but like this idea that he is clear cut the best defender for the Cavs or the standout one that voters wouldn’t even look at somebody else on the Cavs. I don’t know that that’s accurate.

Ethan Sands (29:25.632)

Okay, so let’s do this. As of right now, the odds for Defensive Player of the Year has Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr., Draymond Green, Dyson Daniels, Lugans Dort, Shay Gilders Alexander, and those are basically like the top ones, right? That’s, Shay is at like plus 5,000.

Chris (29:50.112)

Yep.

Ethan Sands (29:54.894)

Evamobly is at minus 275 when it comes to…

Chris (29:59.169)

There’s something else that Shea is going to run into. He’s just not viewed as an elite defender. He doesn’t have that reputation. He has the numbers. Oklahoma City has the numbers with him on the floor too, but he’s not viewed that kind of way. Evan Mobley, you think about him as an elite defender. You know, he’s already been in the conversation for defensive player of the year in the past. Top three in defensive player of the year in the past.

He’s been on an all defensive team. You know, Luke Doerr, that’s what he does. That’s how he’s made his mark in the NBA. Dyson Daniels, that’s how he’s made his mark in Atlanta. That’s how he’s got his nickname of the Great Barrier Thief. So when you have that reputation defensively, that pulls voters your way too. I’ll say that.

Ethan Sands (30:52.802)

Alright Chris, well, I think the Defensive Player of the Year conversation, although I have a feeling that a voter, even though I’m not one, voters are leaning a particular way. Obviously you have better insight when it comes to those and when it comes to the defensive analytics that everybody is gonna look into. But…

Chris (31:04.663)

you

Chris (31:16.023)

Can I just make it clear for all of the people that may be aggregating this or listening to this and maybe not listening close enough. I have an Excel spreadsheet that runs through every single award that I vote on and I keep a running tally and it allows me to kind of stay organized with these kinds of things. So I can look into the players that I need to look at and I can compare the stats that I think are meaningful.

So I just want to make this clear. If voting was today, I would have Evan Mobley as Defensive Player of the Year. I believe that he has earned it. I believe that he is the best choice for Defensive Player of the Year. But I’m trying to take you into a mind of a voter. And I’m trying to lay out everything that everybody is going to look at. And if you’re not looking at it that kind of way.

Right? If you just make a decision saying, Evan Mobley don’t even have to look at any, then you’re doing a disservice as a voter. You’re just not doing it the right way. You have to dig into everything. And then you have to look at the eye tests and all those kinds of things too. So again, today, Evan Mobley would be my defensive player of the year. I think he’s the best choice for that award.

Ethan Sands (32:41.984)

If I had to, if I was a voter, which I am not, I would obviously say that I’m going to wait until the end of the season. I’m going to look at all these stats and all these different things, but because I am not, I can say, and I’m going to put my take out there because that’s the business that we’re in nowadays. Chris, you got to, y’all put your takes out there. And this is by no means a flaming hot take, but I’m going to double down on it. Put.

Chris (32:48.855)

you

Chris (33:04.107)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (33:10.83)

Evan Mobley’s name on the trophy because I think there’s no chance for these guys who have multiple players on their team that are going out for the award because based on the Vegas insider that has all of these different bet betting odds, I don’t see Jared Allen in the top 15 20 right so.

For this setting, Jared Allen is not getting a whole lot of votes to take away from Evan Mobley. But Dork could have votes taken away from him by Shay Gilligan’s Alexander, right?

Chris (33:54.518)

Mm-hmm

Ethan Sands (33:56.002)

The other big one that we talked about is Dyson Daniels. And I don’t know if the impact metrics are going to help Dyson in that case. Again, I do not have the stats in front of me, but I am going to say Evan Mobley is my defensive player of the year for this season. And it’s not because he’s on the Cleveland Cavaliers. It’s not because he has, he is on the team that I cover. It’s from watching these NBA games on

every single night and seeing who makes the most impact. Who do offensive players, who does Shay Gilder’s Alexander go into the lane and question his decision about? Who do these top scorers have to think about when they’re not only going up against, but only just seeing them in the painted area or in front of them as a defender? Evan Mobley to me is one of the biggest ones. And again, when it comes to

the fouling aspect of Jaron Jackson Jr. I just don’t think you can talk to me about a guy that has 80 more fouls than Evan Mobley this season. That seems a bit ridiculous for playing the same position and being like what, 30, 40 pounds heavier? I don’t know. I think these are all things when you come to the eye test that you just have to account for. And obviously when you talk to Chris, when you talk to these voters, the eye test is probably the last thing that they talk about.

Chris (35:00.055)

you

Chris (35:10.476)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (35:22.69)

because they go through these lists of statistical categories that are also important. But.

Chris (35:28.759)

Dyson Daniels has a case to be in the top three for sure. Like if you want to make that argument, but he can’t win not on the 16th ranked defense in the NBA. Atlanta’s bottom, bottom half of the NBA in defense and you can guys on that kind of defense, unless you’re doing things at an unprecedented level at like every single metric like points to you the way that every single metric pointed to Wemby.

Ethan Sands (35:31.533)

Yes.

Chris (35:56.161)

despite the fact that San Antonio’s not a great defensive team. Unless that’s the case and that’s not the case with Dyson, it’s very, very difficult for anybody to win Defensive Player of the Year when you have that kind of ranking from a team standpoint defensively.

Ethan Sands (36:15.512)

But with all that being said, like to leave you guys with this important statistic when it comes to the Cleveland Cavaliers each night that we do the podcast. The Cavaliers magic number to clinch the top spot in the Eastern Conference is eight after their 16th straight win coming against the Memphis Grizzlies on Friday night. With that being said.

That’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in all your questions for a Hey Chris episode. This is where you can argue with me and Chris about the Defensive Player of the Year. If you have metrics that you want to throw Chris’s way, I bet you he’s seen them already, but feel free. So to do all this,

Chris (37:10.295)

You

Ethan Sands (37:12.948)

sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit Cleveland.com slash calves and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the calves from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through cell text. Y’all be safe. We out.